103: Releasing Ego + Pride As Writers

 

When receiving feedback or criticism on your work, it can be easy to get defensive and push back. In this episode, I talk about releasing ego when getting feedback and why embracing humility and an open mind is one of the most important things we can do as writers.

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Releasing Ego + Pride As Writers

Friends, welcome back to the podcast. I'm not exactly sure what I'm gonna call this episode, obviously will be, it will have a title when it's released. But I was just thinking a lot about kind of like humility and ego in the writing process, and specifically when getting feedback, because I am replaying something that I said when I was talking to someone about writing. And it, I don't know that it came out correctly, and they kind of push back on on something I was saying. I guess I'll just tell you what it is. I was saying that, you know, it can be really discouraging to be this far in my writing journey. And not have a published book yet. And, but it doesn't matter. Like I'm still on this path, the time would have passed anyways. And I've learned so much. And I've become a better writer, and I'm gonna keep writing no matter what happens. And I was sharing with her that, you know, despite all of that, like, I still I still have this deep knowing that I am going to publish a book.

 

Someday I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't know how it's going to happen. But I have no doubt. And it's not like, uh, you know, I'm not saying oh, I have this certainty that I'm going to be a New York Times bestselling author. It's just like, yeah, I will publish a book one day, like I have a certainty about it. And I've had that certainty the entire time that I've been writing. And we got into discussion after that based on what I shared with her about humility and about like, you know, not just expecting something to fall into your lap because you want it. And so what I want to talk about in this episode is just the balance between hyping yourself up and being confident in your abilities. And trusting the process, but also being humble and recognizing that a lot of times new writers especially don't know what they don't know. And they can sort of not all new writers, but some new writers can overestimate their abilities because they just don't there again, there's so much they don't know. It's sort of like that.

 

Oh, what is it called? I had to pause and Google it. The Dunning Kruger effect, which is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities. And I can I mean, I'll just talk about my own experience. When I first started writing, before I had written a book or even tried to start writing a book, I wrote a few short stories. And I remember sending one of those short stories off to publications that were extremely prestigious, like sending it off to the Paris Review, as if,as if the first true short story that I have written was going to just magically be picked up by the Paris Review.

 

Does that happen? I'm sure it has in the history of the Paris Review, but like the odds of that are astronomically low. The Paris Review is an extremely prestigious, very esteemed literary journal and has published some of the best writers in recent history. And I was like, I'll just submit it to Paris Review and see what happens. And there were other publications that I submitted submitted it to they were equally kind of up there. I just can't remember what they what they are now. But um, yeah, so I really thought that that would be a good way for me to sort of build up my my writing resume and then it would be easy to get an agent and easy to get a book published. If I had these credentials under me. That was my plan. So I love that for me, like looking back, I'm like, ah, sweet, little naive. Katie, like, it's cute that I thought that.

 

And I don't mean, I don't say that to be condescending, or anything. So please, you know, don't take it that way. If you've done the similar thing. I think what it is more just for myself, like I had a very limited awareness of my writing capabilities. I couldn't yet see that what was on the page was not exactly living up to the vision that I had in my head. I just wasn't able to see that yet. And I wasn't able to really examine my own writing. And years later, I mean, I still can't be objective about my own writing, I am absolutely sure that in five or 10 years, I will look back at the stuff that I'm writing now and think, oh, wow, okay, I was doing this thing. And I didn't even realize it. I, this thing sucks. And I didn't even realize it. You know, that's part of growing and evolving as a writer, we shouldn't expect to just be naturally good at something the first time we do it. And so I don't know why. Some writers and I'm including myself in that I don't know why some of us writers think that we're just going to be naturally amazing at something, the first thing that we write like I don't, it's rare, it's very, very rare that that happens.

 

So anyways, that's that's what spurred this topic for me is I was thinking about what I sent to this woman. And I was thinking about this conversation that we had. And so that's where it kind of relates to the writing piece of it. But I think for the the feedback part, I want to talk about that as well, because it's something that can affect a writers ability to improve, for the work to improve the actual thing that they're working on. But then for them to improve as a writer as well. I have not had, I'm trying to think if I've had any experiences of this. As an editor, I don't think I've had any experience is really where someone pushes back and tries to argue with me or receives my feedback that I'm giving them in a very, very, very negative way.

 

It might happen, and I just don't see it. I guess that's, that's more likely that I will email off a manuscript, where I've done a manuscript evaluation, which is giving someone feedback on the plot, characters, dialogue, conflict, etc. Where I've given them notes, giving them suggestions, and it's poorly received. That could definitely happen. And because it's done electronically, you know, I don't see them open the email, I don't see them process all of that feedback. So sure, that could absolutely happen. And then they could rant and rave to people in their life about me and how wrong I am. Sure, that could happen.

 

But I have noticed this multiple times in person, where I've attended writers groups, or meetups or classes where we've shared feedback. And this is something that even as a new writer, when I was experiencing this, I filed it away as a learning opportunity, because I did not want to, to be that way. Let me explain kind of what I've what I've experienced. And maybe this is something that you've experienced as well, if you've been either yourself or you've been in groups where people have received feedback from other writers. So when I was living in Nashville, I took a lot of reading writing classes at The Porch, which is this local writing center literary center.

 

And one of the things that I I would do was something called draft chat, which is where you would bring, I tend to 15 pages, maybe have something that you were working on. And it would be limited to a small number of people, it might only be like five or six people. And it was a couple hours on a weeknight, and you would bring what you were working on. And you would, we would just go around the room and everyone would get a turn. So we'd all read, you know, something that someone else was working on. And then we would set a timer for like 10 or 15 minutes and give that person feedback. And there were, there were some people that no matter what the feedback was, their natural inclination or gut reaction seemed to be to challenge it and to argue and to tell that person why they were wrong for bringing up that point of feedback.

 

Now, I don't have an MFA, but I have friends who read her friends who have MFAs. And there's something that is done in some MFA programs where when you are workshopping something, the model is that the person who's receiving feedback whose work is being discussed is just silent, and they don't respond. They just listen, they take everything in. And I'm not saying that, that I like that model or agree with that model. If I think it's perfectly fine for the writer to challenge a piece of feedback or to question the person and be like, oh, it's interesting, what makes you think that can you share a little bit more about that? Or like what in this chapter is making you say that? I think that's fine to have a dialogue to have a back and forth about it. But what I was seeing is people would challenge every single point.

 

I remember one time a guy brought a sample, you know, 10, or 15 pages of this really dense science fiction book that he was working on. And there was some feedback from people on certain elements of, of his work. And he got extremely defensive. I mean, the energy in the room just changed completely. He was physically tense, he was visibly upset. And he proceeded to essentially argue with anyone who, who, you know, gave a point of criticism towards him. And none of it was done in a mean way. When I say criticism, I don't mean like, they were like, yeah, this is terrible, you need to start over, it was more like, I noticed that this character doesn't seem to be particularly strong in this way. And actually, they are kind of contradictory and how they were portrayed. I don't know, I'm just making that up. I don't remember what the specific notes were for this guy. But it was, it was remarkable. I could just see how his pride was being injured, like in real time for this.

 

And it's a shame because, trust me, I get that instinct when I'm in the hot seat. And it's my own work being discussed, either in those draft chat meetups, or when I was in my critique group, where we would meet once a month, if I was sharing something like I get it I, especially early on, I did have some feelings of wanting to get defensive over my work and argue with people. That was my first instinct, but I didn't, I didn't act on it. I didn't do that I tried to just keep an open mind. And you know, the thing with feedback is if someone suggests something that you don't agree with at all, and you're like, what are you talking about, and maybe they don't have anything to back it up from the text, they're just like sharing an opinion with you, it's fine for you to disregard it, you don't have to take every point of feedback that someone gives you in a setting like that.

 

So you know, what you could do, instead of getting defensive and arguing is just note like, okay, you know, thank you for sharing, I understand. And then if you don't agree with it, you don't have to change your manuscript, like, it's fine. And I always said to my editing clients, too, that I'm making suggestions based on my experience as an editor and a writer, and I'm backing it up with these, you know, this proof in the text here, but like, this is your story, you can disregard things that I say. Anyways, I just think it's interesting how we as writers can be very protective of our work. And sometimes again, we get that instinct to want to just be fierce and protective. And when we get into that mode of being antagonistic, and wanting to argue and wanting to shut people down, who are offering us their thoughts, we're immediately shut off from hearing what they have to say.

 

And so something that I always try to do when I'm in those situations, is to just keep an open mind. And that's something I still do even when I'm receiving, you know, feedback from my agent, for example, I just got an edit letter back with some notes on a revised draft that I sent her. And there was part of me, I mean, there's always part of me, that's like, I want her to just say, great job, this is perfect or ready to send it back out. No, no edits, no suggestions. And that doesn't  happen. So there's always a little piece of me a little part of me that when I get that feedback, it's like, oh, but that's okay. You know, I process it, I feel it, and then I move on, and I get to work.

 

So I think that ego, and that pride is always going to be there for me, you know, I can just again, on this part of it'll just be for myself, it is always going to be there. But it's just learning to recognize that it's just a part of me, it's just my pride, it's just my ego, I can, you know, I can stay open to feedback and hearing from other people about my work. Because the ultimate goal is to make the book better, and to make me as a writer, better and stronger. That's the ultimate goal. And part of how I do that is by getting feedback from other people. This can be a nuanced, messy conversation to have, because there's so much when you're creating something and you're so close to it, and you infuse part of yourself into it, it can be extremely hard to hear criticism.

 

But yeah, I just think there's got to be a balance. There's got to be a balance between believing in your work and advocating for yourself and knowing that you're called to this path of being a writer for a reason. But also realizing that especially if you're new, your ability might not be where it needs to be to achieve the kind of success that you want. And that's okay.

 

Again, we shouldn't expect as writers to be incredible literary writers and like geniuses right out of the gate, as soon as we start writing, we wouldn't have that expectation for partly any other fields. So I don't think we need to have it as writers either. It's just, yeah, it's not, it doesn't mean that you can't improve rapidly and quickly. And just, you know, see your writing and your skill improve over a short period of time, but it just means that in the beginning, it might not be where, where it has to be, and that's okay, you're learning and growing, and you're only going to learn and grow by continuing to do it continuing to write, continuing to get feedback from other people. All of that is so crucial. So keep at it, stick with it. Remember that balance of like, humility, but also confidence and, you know, I think that's kind of a great place for writers to be. Okay, thank you for listening, and I will see you next week.

Katie Wolf