140: Answering Your Questions about Book Editing and Book Editors

 

I asked y'all what podcast episode topics you wanted me to cover, and a few people submitted topics related to either working with an editor or getting started as an editor. We discuss how far an editor should go when editing your work, what content to post as a new editor, how to set your prices and offers, and when you should reach out to an editor you want to work with.  

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answering your questions about

book editing and book editors

Hello, welcome back to a creative life Podcast. I'm excited to do a specific q&a episode on stuff related to being a book editor or working with a book editor. I put something out on Instagram and was like, hey, what podcast ideas do you all have for me and a few people submitted questions about either being a new book editor or working with an editor. And I've done a few episodes on this for both becoming an editor, how I got started, and then also what it's like to work with an editor.

 

So you can go back and check those out if you want. And I didn't feel like any of these topics were enough to do their own episodes. So I figured let's just throw them all together under this umbrella. And then I also got a question from someone in a DM like the next day about working with an editor. And so I wanted to throw that under this umbrella as well. So we have four things we're going to address. And I know we just did our July q&a episode. But yeah, this is like slightly different one.

 

The first issue that someone requested an episode on is working with editors and how far is too far when reworking the writing. I think it's a common fear among writers that editors are going to change their writing that their book is maybe no longer going to sound like they're their voice, it's no longer longer going to be their story, that there's that the editor is going to come in and make massive changes to it. But what I want you to remember with any type of editing, and actually what I'm going to do is just go over the types of editing really quickly, because I do think this is something that could happen more often, in terms of there being a line where the editor is doing too much with line editing specifically.

 

So copy editing is a service where the editor cleans up grammar punctuation, spelling, verb, tense, subject, verb agreement, stuff like that. Developmental editing, or a different way of a different type of service that's similar to developmental editing is called a manuscript evaluation, which is what I call it.

 

This is where the editor doesn't actually make changes, they're just giving you suggestions. So they will leave comments and write you a letter and suggest different things related to plot, characters, conflict, world building, etc. Then, line editing is editing that is really focused on the flow and the structure of your actual writing of the prose of the sentences. So they will give you suggestions for clarity how to word something slightly clearer, or more concisely, how to avoid repetition and your sentences, how to use more imagery. So they're really looking at the breakdown of each sentence and going line by line through the manuscript.

 

And then proofreading is just the final pass through before. I mean, this is always in my world. It's associated with self publishing, with indie publishing, because, you know, once you get the book, formatted, formatted once it's already been edited, then proofreaders will be hired to do a final pass through just to make sure that there aren't any wonky, line breaks, or typos or anything else that's been thrown in.

 

That hasn't been caught yet. So those are, those are the main types of editing that we're talking about. And what you have to remember with all of these different types of editing is that the editor is simply making suggestions with developmental editing or manuscript evaluation, where they're looking at the story itself, the editor is not actually making changes to the story. So in terms of that line, there, there really isn't there because even if you decide to implement all of the suggestions that the Editor gives you, you're going to be doing that in your own voice, you are going to be writing those additions, you are going to be making those changes.

 

So it's still going to be your writing your voice. With line editing. The reason why I mentioned that this is where I think this is the most likely type of editing that might blur that line. Because editors are giving you suggestions on how to word a sentence but a good line editor is not steamrolling your writing voice. They really are presenting suggestions. And an editor should be using something like track changes in Word where they're saying they're striking up a sentence and giving you a suggestion on hey, I'm going to insert this word here because you use see this word already this other word three times in the previous sentence.

 

So what about using this word, but again, it's all it's all suggestions. And a good line editor really honors the authenticity of your voice. Now, with copy editing, you would think that this would be more black and white, because a comma is a comma is a comma, right. But even with copy editing, there's a lot of artistic interpretation that the editor has to do. And I'm gonna give you an example of this. Because a lot of times people think that grammar like, is such a black and white thing.

 

And in some cases, it is like you need a period at the end of a sentence. That's pretty standard. I mean, I'm going to include a, unless it's an exclamation point or a question mark, obviously, but I'm going to I'm going to give you an example here. Okay. So there's something called a comma splice that happens very frequently, where writers will combine two sentences that are complete sentences on their own, and just put a comma in between them. So I wrote out an example that I'm going to share with you the cat purred, comma, he loved to be pet. Is it petted or pet?

 

Oh my gosh. Now I'm looking at this and I'm like, wait a second. Is this right? Hold on, y'all. Let me check. Let me check Merriam Webster's. There's something that happens when I start talking where like, immediately question all of my grammar knowledge, not if it's written, but if I'm talking, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do. petted, okay. I had it correct. Okay, so the sentence is the cat purred comma, he loves to be petted. That is an error. That's incorrect. That's something called a comma splice, because those are two complete sentences. So it should be one of a few different options.

 

And this is where the editor has to make a judgment call. Because there are multiple ways to fix this. The first way is just to split them into two complete sentences by including a period instead of a comma. So the cat bird, period, new sentence, he loved to be petted. Or you could add another word in there like the cat bird, because he loves to be petted, that's a little bit more heavy handed, I don't usually do things like that.

 

But if the sentence had a different meaning, you could put a conjunction in there like and the cat bird and something, something, it doesn't really make sense. In this example, you could also put a semicolon in there, the cat, bird, semicolon, he semicolon, he loves to be petted. But if the author doesn't use any semicolons in the entire manuscript, then the editor is probably not going to put one there, they could, they could suggest it, but they're probably going to fix it some other way. So that's just an example to show you, there are multiple ways to do this. And obviously, that's not a huge thing. Like it really doesn't affect the voice that much.

 

But I do want to mention it, because there's a lot more variation than I think people realize. And another thing I share my share this in a tick tock as an example, once but you know, the comma that that a lot of people put before to at the end of a sentence. Different style guides say different things about that. So if you say like, I like coffee, too. And a lot of people want to do I like coffee, comma, too, which is both ways are correct. Certain style guides want to have that comma there. But Chicago Manual of Style, which is the style guide that I follow when I copy edit, says that you don't need it.

 

So it's just I like coffee to know, karma. Anyways, it's a bit of a grammar, side note, but I just think it's so interesting. All these guides have different rules that dictate different usages. So that's what I'll say is as far as that line goes, just remember that the ultimately, it's your decision, what you want to do with the feedback, it's your decision. If you get something line edited, and you don't agree with how the editor has suggested that you change something, then you don't have to change it, you can just keep it as is. Something that's tricky with copy editing is I always, I always worry that people are just going to be like, Yeah, I don't want a comma there. So I'm not going to put one there, even though technically there needs to be a comma.

 

But again, that's their right, you know, all I'm doing is giving them an edited manuscript and if they decide that they don't want to accept those changes, they technically don't have to. So yeah, it's your decision. It's your call. The next question that I got are not really question but just issue that someone wanted me to talk about on the podcast is how to come up with offers and set prices as a new editor. This is if you are brand new, how you approach this is going to look a little bit different depending on where you are putting yourself and your offers and everything out there.

 

If you are using a freelancing site like Fiverr Upwork, even something like Reed Z, you are going to have to price your stuff a lot lower especially in the beginning when you're a new seller because you just don't have the proof yet You don't have the experience, you don't have the testimonials, the reviews the ratings. So you're gonna have to charge pretty low. And you can go on those sites and see what new sellers are charging to get an idea. Just do like some market research, where you're looking at, at what different people are charging and what they're offering.

 

If you are going out on your own, and you're creating a website, if you're posting social media content, like you're just you're not relying on those platforms to bring in clients, then obviously, you have more freedom to set your prices how you want to, but it's still I think, a good idea to go low when you're starting. I think of any new Freelancer when they're just getting started, I think of working with people as like, just building the experience. You are not doing it to make massive loads of money in like the first few months that you get it for someone and you're not going to make a massive amounts of money probably ever, but that's not the goal, when you're first starting out, the goal is just to get experience, build up your confidence, build up your skill set all of those things.

 

So to incentivize people working with you, that's that's a reason to charge a little bit lower. Once you're past that point, though, I think a great place to start well, I'll give you two options, the market research that I mentioned. So go off of Fiverr off of Upwork of off of all those freelancing sites and just look at what different editors are charging who are who are working for themselves and not, you know, putting their work their their services there that is just don't copy exactly word for word. What other people are doing, how they're describing their offers, I had someone do that to me, where they essentially copied all of my offers, including all of my coaching packages, like pretty much verbatim.

 

So please, please don't do that. That's not good energy to be putting out into the world. And to start your business off on that foot just feels kind of gross. But you can also look at see what people are charging that way to editorial editorial freelancers Association has a rates survey that they put out every few years. And they just updated it recently. So you can go and see what the averages are for all kinds of different editing, copy editing, line editing, proofreading, just any kind of editing in different fields as well, which is nice.

 

So there's a range. I mean, for something like copy editing, someone could charge seven cents a word for copy editing, or someone could charge less than a cent like a half a cent per word. For copy editing. It's such a massive range, because it's going to depend on so many factors. But editorial freelancers association will give you the average. So for them, it's two cents to 2.9 cents per word, which is exactly what I charge because it does depend. That's why I have that range depends on the project that stated in the manuscript, etc.

 

It's my main script evaluation is lower than what they have on as the average and editorial freelancers Association, but I'm happy with my rates, I feel good about where they're at. So yeah, it's just something to go off of. And then in terms of your offers, I've talked about this on the on the podcast before. But please pick like one or two types of editing that you're going to do for a very specific, narrow group of people, you should not be editing all types of things, doing all kinds of different types of editing for all types of people. That's not a good business strategy. Because it's going to be difficult to speak to clients to get them to come in if you are trying to market to all kinds of different writers, and companies and etc.

 

So this is going to come down to your skill set, this is going to come down to your training that you have in these different areas, different types of editing, it's going to come down to a lot of things. But I think it's best to start with just one or two types of editing. And then you can always add in more things later, as you build up your client base, your experience, training, knowledge, all of that. So it's just going to depend what you what you want to be offering really. The next question we are I keep saying question, suggestion that I got, I'll use that word suggestion. On this, in the subject area is creating content as a new proofreader slash copy editor. Content marketing is the best way to get clients. It really is if you are not on a freelancing site, because obviously if you're on a freelancing site, then it's easier clients just will find you because of that, but people have to have a way to discover you they have to have a way to find you, especially if you are brand new editor.

 

It's content marketing, which is a way to get your name out there so that clients can discover you. I have a few pieces of advice for this and first is to make sure that you are only picking like two to max platforms to really go all in on just like you should not be offering every type of editing under the sun for every type of writer or client, you also shouldn't be trying to be on every social media platform doing all the things. So like, don't try to be on Twitter and Facebook, and Instagram at tick tock and have a YouTube and have a podcast and have substack. And you're just gonna burn yourself out in the beginning. Yes, you can repurpose content. And that's great. But just pick a couple of places.

 

And the best suggestion, it sounds so silly. But this is the honest to God truth is to pick the platforms and pick the type of content that is most enjoyable and easiest for you. I do not like Twitch or weell, x. I don't like it. I tried a number of years ago because I was like, oh, there's so many publishing people on Twitter, but I just hate it. So I stopped threads, I'm not on threads. When it was first released last year, I think maybe I posted a few times just to get a feel for it to see if it was something that I wanted to do. And I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy creating content, I go on threads to look at some content sometimes. But I don't create content there. Because I really don't enjoy it doesn't mean I want in the future.

 

But for right now, Tik Tok I really enjoy. And I also really enjoyed it in the podcast, and also Instagram stories. I mean, I repurpose my Tik Tok, to Instagram. So that kind of covers that. But so that's that's my advice is to focus on what's easy and most fun for you to do. Or if if you're not putting in the area of fun because content feels overwhelming or stressful, then at least it's like, not terrible. And when you're thinking about the types of content to post, you have to think about what is going to build trust and build authority for you as new editor.

 

Because in order for people to want to hire you, they have to feel like they can trust you. And they have to feel like their book is going to be in really good hands that you are going to know how to edit it that you are going to take good care of it, that they are going to have a polished, good story, whatever that means, at the end of working with you. So the way to do that is to think about positioning yourself as an authority and sharing your knowledge.

 

So for copy editing, this might look like sharing grammar tips, sharing behind the scenes of your work as a copy editor. And also sharing like your values. As a business owner. I think that's important too. So that people can start to know who you are discover your content, but also start to trust you. And one trap that I want to encourage people not to fall into that I fell into in the beginning is to not purely create educational content. Because yes, it's a way for people to discover you like if you share writing tips or writing advice or grammar tips, or whatever mindset tips related to writing that kind of thing.

 

But if you only ever post that type of content, people are not necessarily going to have a strong emotional connection to you. You are going to become a textbook. And that's kind of dry. We want people to have an emotional connection to us. And I'm sharing I'm sharing this advice for new editors I'm in a bit a bit of a different position because I've been doing this a few years and it builds up a client base and followers and stuff. So I'm my content has shifted now. But when you're new, I think it's important to do a lot of that educational content, but also balance it with who you are, what your values are as a business.

 

And when I say values, let me give you an example of what I mean, something that I try to just share about in my content. Because I want to communicate that this is important to me as an editor. I am not in my content, I try to be as authentic as possible and come across as myself in real life. And in real life. I just have had people tell me that I'm like very easygoing, and like kind and I don't know, I'm not like a drill sergeant kind of coach. I'm not a someone who's just going to tear your manuscripts to shreds. Like I'm supportive and encouraging. That's how I am with my friends with my family.

 

So that translates to how I work as an editor. I want people to trust that I will not tear their book to shreds and be like you need to give up. You wrote a book that's a piece of trash, why even bother? Like I'm going to treat their manuscript with care. And I'm going to be yes, giving them constructive criticism, but also boosting them up because that's because like they hopefully hopefully this comes across that they trust that I want what's best for them in their book in their writing. And I'm really here to support them in that in getting to that place, whether it's as an editor or editor or a coach.

 

And then another thing I try to signal in my content is just like I want people We'll have all kinds of backgrounds and identities to feel safe with me. So like, I don't know this maybe a year or two ago, there was a book editor who got a lot of flack, rightly so for like, posting some homophobic content. And I want it to communicate clearly that I'm an ally, LGBTQ plus clients, like can feel safe sending their books to me, if there's any sort of queer representation, that I want to support that I want to put that kind of work out into the world. I'm a huge fan of it, like, yes, please send me that.

 

So I think that's important to communicate as well just like, what you value. And if you think about with copy editing, okay, I know I'm talking a lot about this, but I have so much to say about content. So this is the last piece I'll say about it. And then we'll move on. It's, like I mentioned with the educational content, and you don't want to just do that. Think about, okay, when when someone gets a manuscript copy edited, it's not just that you're cleaning up the grammar. That's really, that's ultimately not what people are hiring you like, yes, they want you to go through and clean up things, fix typos, and all that. But they're doing it because they want a book that they can be proud of.

 

They want to either query the book or publish it themselves, whatever's next for it. And they want to do that with confidence and knowing that they're putting their best work out into the world. And copy editing is a way to do that to help them feel more confident. So there's so much emotion that goes into editing that we don't always think about. So anytime you can tie that like emotionality into your content, and stir some kind of emotional response in people, that's going to help your content stick. And that's going to help people get to know you.

 

And remember you over all of the other editors out there. I mean, there are so many editors online, especially now I feel like in the last couple of years, there's just been this explosion, which is awesome. I love it. But you know, people choose to work with me for specific reasons, there are so many other editors that they could choose to work with. But they choose to work with me because of, I guess my content and that I have the fact that I've demonstrated my expertise, the fact that they know I'm going to care about other books, and that I care about my clients like all these things that have been signaled through my content.

 

So just a few things to think about. Okay, the last thing I want to touch on is just that DM that I mentioned that someone sent me that I feel like it kind of falls under this umbrella and the person was wondering when to send, or when to hire an editor at what point in the drafting process like should you wait till you're totally done with writing your book? Should you wait? Should you reach out when you are starting to write it. And every editor might have a slightly different answer and a slightly different process.

 

But this is what I tell clients, especially for new writers, if you are writing your very first book, I think it's a good idea to wait and reach out once you were either close to done with the first draft, or done with the first draft and about to start editing it yourself to do a few rounds of revision on your own before you send it to an editor. The reason for this is I think the person who sent me the DM was like 20,000 words in I would hate to put any pressure on a new writer to feel like oh, I booked this editor a month out, like I've gotta get this book to them. And then they rate the race through the first draft. And it's they're not happy with it. And they don't have time to revise it, and they just send it to me, I would much rather people take their time, have a manuscript that they're proud of, maybe it's not like 100% perfect, but it's solid, they've had some time to do some editing on their own before they send it to me, that's always the the way that I prefer to do it, just so there's not that pressure.

 

I book out anywhere from two to four months in advance. So you also have to consider that like, a lot of times editors on their website will say like I'm booking now for this date, just so you have an idea. I'm recording this episode in July, and right now I'm booking for end of September, I believe, sometime in September. And that doesn't mean I'm only booking for September, like if you want to book a spot six months out, you can absolutely do that. I'll let you know what my availability is. But September's just the first availability that I have. Now, I will say that for like a small percentage of writers, they want that push, they want that accountability.

 

So I have had people come to me and say, hey, I want to book a spot for like six months out, and then they just have that deadline. And they know that they've got to get moving because they that's the date that they have reserved. That's the date that they're going to send me their book. So So for some people, it can be a motivating thing, but for a lot of people I just say hold off. Wait. So yeah, so that's what I'd say.

 

And you can always reach out and ask me, you know, I'm happy to answer questions like that for people for your specific circumstance and I can let you know either what I have available or I can like You know, like when I would, I would have one, have you reached back out if you're not done with the book or whatever. So. All right. Well, thank you for listening. I hope this was helpful. And again, we'll have a couple more episodes in August that are from ideas of things that are from y'all, which will be exciting. So we've got some good stuff coming up. Thank you so much for listening.

Katie Wolf